Sounds like a plan…
…in a nutshell.
Can’t let this just pass. So, here’s the accurate stuff from the Christian viewpoint, all of which can be found in the Bible.
God created humans in his image. There was no sin on earth to begin with. God gave one instruction, thereby giving them the choice to live in perfection with God forever, or to have the knowledge of everything that is good and evil.
They made the choice, at some point in their lives, to take knowledge over God. That is where sin started. It was not something that was created into humans by God.
So, God tried rules, giving Moses a list of commandments, and a lengthy list of instructions on what had to be done for the people to atone for their own sins. That didn’t work out. So then God decided to send Jesus to die on behalf of all humans.
God did not condemn us to live in sin from the outset - Adam and Eve chose that for the rest of humanity.
but essentially he said to himself “hmm i am going to make 2 human beings, with the power to make their own choices, THEN i’m going to punish them and all of their decendants because they didn’t abide by MY rules and choose MY decision. So i’ll make some more of MY rules and give you the choice to follow them, or not and then punish you if you don’t or if you think for yourselves….just sayin!
right, he gave them choice. He didn’t create mindless slaves or drones, he created people with the ability to make choices.
Which he already KNEW. What is the point of you choosing something when I KNOW what you will choose?
As a mother, my daughter will have to follow the rules of the household while she lives here. Those rules are in place to keep her safe and to help her grow up into a person who will be able to function well in society. She will one day move out of my house, and then she will have to abide by the laws of my country. These are also in place to keep people safe and to keep society functioning.
Right. And if your kid does something wrong and DOESN’T KNOW it is wrong, you will put her in the basement and torment her for eternity, right? If you allowed yourself to be convinced that infinite punishment for a finite crime is a “DIVINE”, moral and good thing to do, then I pity your children. If it only applies to ‘Adam and Eve’ you already know that the whole thing is fucked up, you just can’t give it up and admit that’s some sick shit.
It’s no different with God. Adam and Eve had the choice to stick to his one and only house rule and to live in perfection forever. They didn’t.
Yeah, and they didn’t know what they were doing was wrong. Yeah - that was gods command but they didn’t know that breaking gods command is wrong either.
The Israelites had the choice to do their best to follow the laws that God made for them. And that just didn’t work.
Yeah, apparently wearing clothes made out of two different kinds of fabric was too tempting for the Israelites. So was eating shellfhish. Also - GOD knew that all along. He created whole thing KNOWING he will have to kill every one but one family and bunch of animals (although fuck all the sweet-water fish).
So God gave humanity one final chance by sending Jesus to die for us.
Which is fucking ridiculous. He sacrificed himself to himself in order to atone for breaking the rule he himself created. Cool. Also - if you did anything wrong, let me hit myself in my foot with a shovel for your sin, so that anyone who was hurt by your misdeeds is now satisfied. This is ridiculous. Even if Jesus died, that does NOTHING to my responsibility for all my evil doings.
Now people have the choice to follow many different ways of life. At no point did God leave us without a chance to one day live without sin, and at no point has God forced people to do what he says.
Wrong. Jesus clearly said that you have to accept him as your personal lord and savior or you will end up in hell. Which is fucking mafia-boss play - do as I say or I will break your legs. Sure - he gave us choice. Just as mobsters do give choice to their victims. Again - ridiculous.
And, in case this sounds a bit Bible-bashy, that is not my intention. The picture here is a complete misrepresentation of Christianity, and I won’t ignore that kind of thing. But I also do not insist that everyone becomes Christian.
Nope. It is perfect depiction of Christianity’s dogma. God created the world, which he knew was fucked up, and he knew he will have to kill everyone. There was this pair of kids, who basically were punished in a most fucked up way ever ( you woman will have period and you will bear children in pain, and you man will be a farmer, oh, and you snake - you will crawl on your belly - DA FUCK? What kind of punishment is that?), then he sent himself (being himself and his son at the same time) to be tortured and die in sacrifice to himself to atone for breaking the rule he himself created, as dying for someone others sin would erase that sin. That is the central tenant of Christianity - it is not oversimplifying - it’s Christianity summed up.
There was also that notion that god did not create sin - BULLSHIT. You know what is crime? Crime is breaking the law. Without the law there is no crime. So until we all agree to establish a law preventing people from doing something, anyone doing that thing is NOT committing a crime. Only after we establish the law - anyone doing the thing is committing the crime. We did not commit the crime but we CREATED IT!
In much the same way God did create sin - he decided that doing this and this will make him angry and that it deserves punishment and so on - he created the law. Adam and Eve broke it, but had it not been for the god it would not have been a sin. GOD CREATED SIN. Suck it up.
So you believe then that if God is real, he controls every one and everything and we are all nothing but pawns? I don’t. I believe that God can see the outcome of every choice that is made, but not that he chooses for us what we will do.
So he knew when he made Adam and Eve that if they listened to him they would live in the Garden of Eden, sinless, forever. He also knew that if they didn’t, they would learn the knowledge of sin. But I do not believe that God had already decided that they would choose to eat from the Tree of Knowledge.
They knew that it was not what God wanted for them. They knew they were being disobedient. They didn’t fully understand the consequences of what they were doing, which is not the same as not knowing that it was wrong.
Did you know that shellfish are the scavengers of the ocean? They eat all the nasty stuff that other sea creatures won’t touch. Food poisoning from shellfish is common even now, when it’s rather easy to cook things thoroughly. Also, food poisoning is deadly. By saying “don’t eat shellfish”, God was protecting his people against food poisoning and possible death. Clothes made from two types of cloth are difficult to sew and easier to tear then clothes made from one type of cloth. By saying “don’t make clothes from two types of cloth”, God was saving them a lot of work and wasted materials. Pretty much all of the laws that God made were based in similar things, they were made to help keep the people safe and make them prosperous.
You are right - you are responsible for anything you do wrong. You have to face consequences of them. Every person does/should eventually. Jesus came to give us a way to have perfect life after death, and so that individuals could have a personal relationship with God, rather then having to go to a priest and have the priest talk to God on the person’s behalf. That’s it. He came so that people don’t have to be perfect in this life.
But God doesn’t make you choose him. And it’s not like you have to choose the moment you hear about it. He’s not like a mobster - you know that you’ve got seconds to make a choice in that kind of situation. With God, you have your whole life.
God left what was needed for sin to start in reach of Adam and Eve. He knew what would happen if they took that, and knew what would happen if they wouldn’t. But I do not believe that he made them choose the path they took.